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Post by Sekhet on Nov 2, 2014 13:23:53 GMT
Someone educate me on the system, please? Heavens know I've seen it mentioned in too many places not to ask!!!
Thanks!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 1:57:07 GMT
I took these from my own boards::
Prodigy Spar System
The Prodigy Spar System is a creation in an attempt to bring forth a bit of realism to Gorean Combat as well as bring about a bit of simplicity to the way that Gorean Combat is conducted in this day and age. This spar system may not be for everyone, others however may have been looking for something like this for quite some time.
The General differences of this spar system with other systems are the following details ...
[*]Fighters start with a bank of 10 points total for the entire fight, each post does not have it's individual value. Each deduction will be removed from their initial point bank. In the event of a draw, the judge shall look to who had received the more serious of wounds to determine the loser. If the wounds are even or no wounds would of been scored, a few more rounds will be fought.
[*]This spar system will not have actual actions such as normal spar systems use them. There will not be a set number of actions that some one may use them as they please.
[*]This spar system will have each post having two parts. The First part will be the counter, the second part will be the Reaction.
[*]This spar system will actually realistically allow the use of what some systems call back posts. Since such back posts are 100 % realistic, they should be incorporated into combat that strives to be realistic. However how such things may happen may not be how they would think such are used in current systems.
General Rules
1. Fighters may use as many weapons.....Fighters may use as many weapons as may be realistically available to them. This means that you may have several weapons upon your person, and not be docked for them. An example would be a quiver of 40 arrows, a belt of 7 quiva, etc, so long as it is realistic to do so. Carrying 2 battle axes, 1 kurii shield, 2 long swords, two short swords, two belts of 7 killing knives, a helmet, and a sleen knife, would not be realistic.
2. Prior to the start of combat Prior to the start of combat, each fighter will post brief stances that they are in, such stances are to indicate which weapons are held how, use of shields or helmets, as well as locations of other weapons that would be visible. A fighter shall make note that he has hidden weapons some where upon their person, but would not have to disclose the exact location.
Poison is not accepted if used by a man of any caste.
Once each fighter has posted their stance, it will be declared who shall go first and then the combat shall start from there. This can be done by guessing of numbers, or whatever is agreed upon for a random choice, or one fighter stating he does not care or what have you.
3. Each spar post may only contain two partsEach spar post may only contain two parts, instead of allocated actions for a fighter to do what he pleases with them in any amount. The first part will be the Counter, the second part will be the Reaction. Together these two parts will make a complete post. One round of combat would be considered as happening at nearly the exact time, with a few exceptions to perhaps listing that they are stunned or pausing to gather wits or the like.
Here is an in-depth explanation for just what exactly each part of a combat post shall be ...
Counter: The counter portion of a combat post will 9 times out of 10 consist of defensive maneuvers to block, or essentially counter the attacks that will be made toward you. Such a counter will allow you to use a combination of small simple movements that fit fluidly together to consist of one single counter movement.
Examples: ~*I crouch down by bending my knees while I raise my shield up to tilt it back over top of my upper torso so that your hammer can smash into it's face instead of my head.*~
~*I pivot quickly on my right foot to draw my left side backward as well as swipe my sheild's outside lower edge down and to my left to try and deflect your thrust at my knee wide of it's mark*~
Counters should be quick movements that can be done very quickly with over lapping one another or incredibly quick after one is completely then the next, but to be done in a short amount of time. The above two examples show what most systems would call two actions, that over lap one another, happening at the same time. This is the preferred use of counters.
For the opening post of a spar, the Counter portion will be used for the fighter to get into range in whatever manner seems best to him.
Reaction: This will 7 times out of 10 be the portion of your post where you insert your offense. However it is not required that your reaction be an attack or anything even offensive in nature. Your reaction could be used in movement or repositioning your body or weapons. Combination of small fluid movements may also be allowed during your reaction so long as they are able to happen at either exactly the same time or overlapping. Backing out of range after every attack is not acceptable.
A reaction combination to discard a weapon in a non attacking manner and draw a new weapon will be considered one reaction. A reaction to combine a body movement along with an attack at the same time is acceptable.
Examples: ~*I thrust my gladius forward at the left side of your chest as well as step in firmly on my right foot to try and add more force to the blow*~
~*I drop down quickly to my right knee while I swing my short sword in a crescent pattern down and to my left at the outside of your left ankle*~
~*I press upward and forward to come to stand while in an attempt to drive the length of my short sword up into your stomach*~
~*I quickly begin to shuffle back and to my right to try and put more distance between us to get away from you while I pull my shield and sword back into original positions.*~
Further Explanation of Rule # 3: As you can tell, what you do in each post will be severely limited, however this is made up for by allowing more posts to be done instead of just the usual 3-5 posts of combat in a normal spar. This spar will put a great deal of emphasis on waiting for your reactions to deliver a critical strike that will disable or simply kill your opponent, as such is quite realistic and often the objective of experienced fighters. The key is to find your opponent out of position, and strike.
4. Forced Actions will not be acceptable...
No forced action will be considered for a lethal blow or knock out blow. A point will be deducted for each forced action. To avoid using forced actions, attempt to use the following ...
~*I thrust my sword forward at your chest, hoping to kill you.*~ Instead of, ~*I thrust my sword nto your chest so that it drives through your muscle tissue and into your heart leaving the tip of the sword poking out of your back*~
~*I swing my sword down and to my right, to deflect your blow wide of my right leg.*~ instead of, ~*I swing my sword down and to my right, deflecting your sword wide to my right so that it is completely out of position for anything I may then do.*~ It will be the judges decision on what a forced action is or is not.
5. Clarity is key....
A fighter must be clear to the Judge and to his opponent. A judge will decide what is clear, and what is not. If a judge struggles picturing something then it is not clear enough, thus warranting a deduction. Also, if a fighter is very unclear in a reaction, to the point that A judge deems it unclear, his opponent will have a small bit of leeway in his Counter, due to the opponent possibly having been confused as well.
6. Realism is vital....
A fighter must strive to be realistic, realistic to what is acceptable in modern physics, but as well as what is realistic in the Gorean World. If a judge feels something is not realistic, it will have a point deducted for it. Also if an attack is unrealistic, then it will not be considered for a lethal blow or knock out blow, even if the opponent messes up his defense.
7. Back Posts will be a complicated issue...
In this type of system, because most times it does not allow for them to be performed as they are often done in other spar systems. An explanation of this is as follows ...
A fighter, in most systems, is able make attacks that will grossly leave his body exposed to a counter attack, but can get away with doing it, because to do it during an attack it would be a back post, so as such many fighters have neglected learning the skill of being able to attack while still keep themselves in the proper position to defend. Often times, people will make a multitude of attacks that would leave them greatly vulnerable, and then simply back away to clear the distance between the two men, thus keeping him safe. This is NOT realistic, and is corrected in this system.
It is largely corrected in this system because people will not have the option to make such attacks and then simply clear away to bring them to safety, despite how badly they left themselves open. I shall provide an example of such.
Fighter A: ~*Equipped with a long sword gripped firmly in both hands. I begin to advance toward you to get into sword range. I then bring the sword upward and then around forward to slash down and to my left at the top of your left shoulder*~
Fighter B: ~*Equiped with a Torv shield in my left hand and a gladius in my right hand, I quickly Step in and to my right as well as raise the face of my Torvaldslander shield upward and to my left to take your hack down onto the face of my shield. I then quickly react with thrusting my gladius in and to my left at the front of your stomach*~
These 2 posts are seen as happening at nearly the same time, and before fighter A could of simply used an action to back out of range after his strike, which is not overly realistic. The ability to Riposte in this spar system will prove to be most realistic, and most important.
If a fighter tries to alter what he had done in previous posts, it is still of course a back post, due to it would be as though re-writing what he already had committed to making happen. Do not consider what is described above as back posting in the normal sense. Instead it is simply counter striking, or a riposte.
If a fighter's reaction at you, is to foolishly kick his leg up at your body into your sword range, it is acceptable for your counter to be snapping your weapon down at his leg, trying to make that fighter pull back a stump, as is very realistic. However, for you to do so, that will count as your Counter, as well as your reaction.
8. To allow Prodigy to go further in separation from some other combat systems...
There will be more of a rolling time limit used in prodigy battles. A time limit may be agreed upon by both and all combatants prior to a fight. Some fighters are fast, they may wish a 4 or 5 minute time limits, others are slower, they may wish a 8 to 10 minute time limit, some may wish a longer time limit then that or no time limit at all. The reason time limits were added to Gorean combat was to keep spars flowing and moving so that a 5 hour death spar would be a thing of the past. This rolling time limit shall hopefully provide benefits for speedy fighters liking to post fast, or slower fighters wishing to take it slower. The default time limit for Prodigy fights that are spontaneous (IE: Open Combat fight would be expected to perform under, is 8 minutes
Time begins when the first attack is issued, it does not start from the stances. Breaking time violation will be a time deduction in sport spars, in serious fights, the reaction in a post that has a time violation, it will be considered as though your opponent was temporarily stunned, and was unable to make a real reaction. If you notice their time violation, and are certain they busted time, in a serious fight, you may disregard their reaction and continue on with using your counter as a free movement or reposition, but not an attack. If that reaction that would be nullified by busting time, is in defense of a lethal or knock out attack, it will not be considered as doing full damage, but this should be rare as defenses should be found in the counter. A time out should never be the only cause for death. The Judge will look at it as part of the blow landed. However that still requires the defense to have been realistic. If the defense would not have worked, AND they busted time, then it is acceptable to rule them dead/captured.
When fighting Multiple Opponents, You will reply to the first attack, and have 8 minutes to reply from that first attack. Once you reply, You have 8 minutes from your OWN time stamp to reply to the 2nd attacker.
9. If an opponent's point bank reaches five...
In open combat or individual duels, the fight shall be handled accordingly. In the case of a sport spar/duel, if the bank reaches 5 points, due to 5 errors, the judge may stop the fight and declare the opponent the winner. If the bank reaches 5 points during the course of open combat, that fighter is then seen as being out of the Open Combat, nothing he does from t here will be seen as valid. However, 5 deductions in Open Combat does not result in being killed or captured, it simply stops them from further participation. However, if the 5 previous mistakes/deductions add up to what would be deadly or disabling moves, the Judge can rule that person dead or captured from those mistakes/deductions.
10. The goal is to provide realism...
The goal is to provide realism, and a bit of simplicity that is lacking in some systems. We are interested in having many battles from Kaiila back, and in mounted combat, like naval combat, half a dozen minor actions are always happening at once, and we hope this will provide a good system to enjoy mounted combat.
11. To escape serious combat...
You must use your Counters to block, and your Reactions to try and flee to an exit. You must do this twice against your opponent. If you are fighting more then one opponent, you need only do it once to each of them. But once finished, immediately leave. Do not stay there, claiming to be safe, and proceed to run your mouth.
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Post by Sekhet on Nov 3, 2014 6:40:09 GMT
Thank you both, very much!
Zar, I didn't even think to check your boards for it and that's the obvious route, isn't it??
Ill be reading up here when I get the chance too!
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Post by Sekhet on Nov 3, 2014 11:19:41 GMT
................
First impression: Holy shit. They idiot proofed cause and effect and put a system to the free form fighting style I learned a decade ago.
Second impression:
So. Would they lose a point for basically shrugging off a devastating wound and acting as though they were never harmed (lack of realism)?
I've seen a spar where one opponent landed a panga machete to the side dominant side of an opponent (and was explained by the judge that was the tie breaking move) but the other opponent continued to fight using his weapon as if he had not been injured.
Reality would of had it he'd barely been able to hold the weapon he was using, let alone swing it if the person remained standing (and the ribs were not broken).
How did that fly? Or is it also to the interpretation of the Judge? (I mean, I know it was Gor and all but still. You can't take a solid hit like that and NOT feel it. You're all Men, yes, but you're not invincible).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2014 23:27:35 GMT
the point system I have only seen in true Blood or Honor spars...that are judged...
I prefer a 3 or 5 post spar...3 post for practice...5 post for tourneys...with 1 Judge attending in case of quarrels
It wouldn't have flown in a True spar...if the Guy had any honor...he would have acknowledged the wound and deemed his weapon useless
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Post by dreamer on Nov 6, 2014 19:59:05 GMT
and the judge would have judged him that way as well. was one of the few issue si had with gorean spars judge bias.. though me fighting will never be an issue in this room.
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Post by Sekhet on Nov 7, 2014 7:00:39 GMT
I avoided fights as much as possible because I did not know the system and I knew as a Woman I had no chance in hell of making a decent stand strength vs strength in Gor.
And thank you Zarrius for your input on the judgment... Wander what the hell happened there. But granted, the sob at the time was bad about giving me full discretion and information about what was going on or what happened.
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